Is there evidence or something to support your assertion that Cloudflare = NSA?
Even if Cloudflare = NSA, there no evidence to support your parallel. If the Ladybird team does something suspicious or hostile to the interests of its users - please let us know.
I really appreciate that, I’ll consider taking you up on that after I get blood-work next. I suspect I am celiac as well and I have recently taken action to cut gluten out entirely, with some improvement.
Recent history has been nearly unpredictable for a while now. Thanks for chatting even if strong emotions flew around. I am not your enemy and we may have more common ground than initially thought. Take care.
I hope you are right.
I think it’s the global wealthy, but same.
I concede, but I think some are more prepared than others.
I think our legal system as its bare bones isn’t bad.
Perhaps there are solid foundations present, but slow reform will not save us. We literally can’t afford to delay immediate action.
Yeah again my plans are not your business and not something I discuss online. Youre giving off Fed energy over there.
You were free to not engage, that was me being incredibly brave in light of recent developments. I don’t take great measures to hide my identity online and I don’t care to.
The documentary is direct evidence, primary sources, and specific excerpts. Literally there’s even pictures. It’s so solid as evidence and as a case, they didn’t even get sued by Trump over it (avoiding discovery).
Then why didn’t the US government under Biden take action? I’m serious. I immediately told you I’d check them out, I am aware of the allegations loosely being made by at least the book from other sources.
If you want to do this democratically - then go to the protests and town halls and talk to people. Go ahead. I’m not stopping you, there are many movements like that already.
We need country-scale action. I spend most of my days living with impaired health, bed-bound - I can do only so much by myself. I’m doing my best to improve my health when doctors aren’t trying to kill me. I have had extremely life-threatening encounters with the healthcare system.
I can tell you’ve never been homeless or did anything with the homeless network.
I have lived in a rural area, in poverty, without much dignity at all, and with chronic illness my entire life. I am gay, autistic, regularly discriminated against, I have experienced prolonged sexual and physical abuse with absolutely no support, and I am effectively a dissident in the state I live in. It’s only through incredible kindness that I am not homeless.
And I have volunteered to directly help the homeless in the past. I’m not the vanguard, I’m just giving small nudges here and there where I can and am able.
I think if the rich kill everyone, they will also die.
They have been preparing for decades, at least. You are free to believe what you want though.
They want the Fallout games to become reality. It’s almost certain. Fuck all of that. Pushing the development of AI unsustainably in a way that other countries can mirror (e.g. China) is suicide for the country, besides them, and solidifies my belief.
Russia has been capable for a decade now and again, has been propped up by China including the use of NK.
Disagree. I believe Russia will see a coup or revolution before a proper war. They have utterly failed against Ukraine, it’s unbelievable to me how much they have failed. I have been observing the invasion, now and again, since day 1 - and the buildup prior to that.
Suicide for the human race? Duh. And that’s climate change.
See my instance. I’m aware. It is my opinion and belief that the oligarchy here in America wants the whole world to perish while they wait it out in their self-sufficient bunkers.
Then don’t use it. Just like we have a post office, and UPS. But you need communications to be centralized somewhat lol, that’s how communcation works. You also wouldn’t say anything on there you wouldn’t say in a Town Hall, it would be your official profile. The power structure also wouldn’t be as centralized as regular social media- that’s why you can sue and demand things, based on constitution and bill of rights and other laws. That means you actually have ppwer over it.
I argue for decentralized, loosely standardized, democratic, socialist structures. The legal system is absolutely and completely busted. I really shouldn’t need to get into that. Hopefully you can agree that the Supreme Court is beyond saving. Your idea is a fantasy, but it’s a nice one if there was any state that truly represented its populace. I do value it though, and even if I call it a fantasy, I like it in theory.
There’s no legal way for us to depose the government or even to suggest to depose the government. I would never organize to depose the government.
Guess we just let Trump destroy the government and install a complete dictatorship in earnest…
I disagree, we do have power. This government is entirely ineffective, even before Trump rose to power, and I’m not going to roll over and lose any semblance of democracy as my, and my neighbors, legal rights are stripped away systematically. I’m going to do my best to save democracy with democracy. Hopefully you come to agree at some point. I never imagined to hear you use legality as an excuse. Trump and the current administration are taking a shit on our legislative branch and our laws in a general sense. 77 million voted for Trump. There may be around 290 million citizens. There are approximately 344 million people living in the US. The numbers are there to take back democracy with democracy. I am completely serious.
Complicated topics cannot be summarized in a Tweet or Lemmy post, they take time like books, long form media, or yes, documentaries and news interviews, gasp.
If people in debates are told to source their claims, there is a preference towards direct evidence, primary sources, and specific excerpts. I prefer direct evidence, specific excerpts, and related argumentation. If a primary source does not provide direct evidence openly, I’m not hunting for it at the drop of a hat or trusting it at face value unless it is convincing. This shouldn’t be difficult.
Regardless, I will expose myself to the documentary and book with an open mind when I have literal -hours- or -days- to digest it all, and you are absolutely free to disagree with my opinions and personal beliefs. I accept being called naive because I care about the human race and I want it broadly return to sanity - the consequences of a world war are absolutely unimaginable. Forecasting war doesn’t help anything, unless you are in the military preparing to respond if it does happen.
[…] first block of your comment […]
I -already- said I am acutely aware of recent developments. We disagree. Russia is not capable, India is unstable, and China is likely to let Russia fail as they essentially already have been. World war is absolute suicide for the human race.
I am not saying to ban other social media, I am saying as a cornerstone of democracy, we need to be able to have forums with our government in official and secure ways, that we can track, and sue over free speech violations. We cannot do that with private companies including private servers. You can just get banned and silenced. Further, we should have streamlined ways of getting government notices, recalls, and contacting our officials. No upvotes or ads allowed.
If I trusted my government, I’d be more inclined to agree with you. I’ve been lied to and gaslit far too much. My government didn’t represent my interests or the interests of the American people even under Obama. Centralized power structures are literally the problem causing every single thing we are talking about, for the most part.
so we DON’T have power
Let’s organize a vote of no confidence outside of our election system to depose our government because it’s all kinds of fucked up.
No, you don’t manage my feelings, and further, your edits messed with my other comment and made it reset. So I think I get to be annoyed that it cost me an extra 15min of my life trying to tell you stuff that you couldve googled yourself because you’re so geopolitically ignorant.
You edited your initial response to me after posting. I caught your comment before you finished.
Linking me documentaries and books instead of direct, primary sources does not respect my time.
I want to thank you for sourcing most of your claims and engaging with me in good faith. I wish you sourced the claim I specifically asked for, but alas, I’ll engage with what you posted.
Please see American Kompromat by Unger and Active Measures documentary linked elsewhere itt.
I will give it a watch at a later time when I get over my illness, but the rise of Trump surely didn’t have anything to do with the DNC and Clinton campaign pushing Trump as a pied piper candidate and telling the media to take him seriously. Russia did not make the mainstream media mention him an uncountable number of times. Russia also does not fund domestic right-wing organizations that back Trump to the best of my knowledge.
From the verified, leaked DNC memo sent by the Clinton campaign in 2015:
Our hope is that the goal of a potential HRC campaign and the DNC would be one-‐in-‐the-‐same: to make whomever the Republicans nominate unpalatable to a majority of the electorate. We have outlined three strategies to obtain our goal:
- Force all Republican candidates to lock themselves into extreme conservative positions that will hurt them in a general election;
In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more “Pied Piper” candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party. Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to: • Ted Cruz • Donald Trump • Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously.
It’s clear that the press took him seriously.
Regarding illicit content/ snuff, here’s a much smaller example with monkey torture rings: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65951188
I’m not sure if that’s relevant to the discussion.
Torture by Putin’s admin in prisons: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62465043
I don’t disbelieve that.
Cyberwarfare by Russia, including propaganda: https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/exploring-cyber-darkness-how-moscow-undermines-the-west-via-the-dark-web/
Not entirely relevant to the discussion, but a lot of these vectors could be mitigated through sane practices like not exposing our e.g. energy infrastructure to the open web.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/01/us-election-software-national-security-threats-00176615
Long read, got through most of it. States and our country being broadly incompetent with our voting systems is well-known. We can do better at any point to standardize systems, increase oversight and transparency, improve efficiency, and vastly improve security. Experts and other influential figures have been sounding the alarm for a long time.
[sources of election interference in Europe]
I don’t live in these countries and I did not experience these happenings, but I will say that it is incredibly more plausible to me that Russia is more overtly influencing European politics, and I don’t need a wealth of evidence to hold that position. Thanks for the links though, I will check them out on my own time.
Crypto funds rightwing extremists, usually in preparation for an election takeover: https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2025/01/report-crypto-donations-right-wing-extremist-groups-rising-especially-europe/402427/
Unregulated, speculative, and essentially untraceable currencies should not have ever been able to be converted to other currencies and exist in the form that they have. I am unsurprised, but at the same time I believe that we can do better.
[various sources relating to the Ukraine sovereignty war/Russian invasion]
I am a believer in sovereignty and I support the people of Ukraine. I’ll leave it at that.
[various sources relating to Musk & Starlink]
Yes, Musk is very likely a traitor and is not a good faith actor. The facts are in evidence, yet you are the first person I have seen consolidating this information.
Lol you sweet summer child. There’s a world war coming, the entire EU has been unable to stop this.
The EU has done nothing concrete on multiple fronts. The Biden administration also largely abandoned Ukraine…
I don’t see a world war or a civil war coming, call me naive but I feel there is little appetite from populaces across the world. I don’t believe China would seriously position themselves with Russia against the world, despite recent developments which I am aware of. Again, maybe I’m naive, but I’ll hold my position.
Yes, had we had a national online forum, this could’ve been prevented.
I disagree, I am a firm believer in decentralized social media. I dislike Lemmy and other fediverse platforms for a few key reasons that we may agree on, but they are the best we have currently. Specific countries could regulate or tailor domestic decentralized media to fit their needs. Centralized, mostly unregulated, and advertiser-driven media has got us into the mess we are in.
Tucker Carlson Funded by Russian Propaganda Machine, Justin Trudeau Testifies Under Oath
I don’t see Justin Trudeau or Tucker Carlson as good faith actors. I need evidence.
We are under active attack and warfare. Would you say this about Ukrainians or Gazans? This is victim blaming. This warfare is brand new, it’s like blaming Europe for not being able to defend themselves against Genghis Khan because he developed horseback warfare.
This is how democracy and representative governance works - it’s not victim-blaming.
Eta: Please stop editing your parent comment as a response to me, and just reply below so we can have a normal back and forth. You’ve had more than enough time while I got these links to finish the above comment.
You are editing your comment, as well as your initial response to me, just as much as I am now trying to respond to you. My initial response to you was only mildly edited after I saw your edits. Chill, I want to make myself perfectly clear.
Further, you’ve just been given substantial links that Russia is funding and orchestrating a global Nazi fascist movement for possibly billions of dollars and killing millions for a global war, which makes them Nazis that are allied with China, India, etc.
Our right-wing think tanks and gems like Musk do plenty to influence European politics, as well.
To me, it seems that you are vastly overestimating BRICS. World war does not end well for anyone. It’s naive to suggest otherwise. I really hope you can calm yourself down, regardless of the evidence presented. War is never an inevitability or a certainty.
You can source your claims. I’ll wait. There is too much here that is hyperbole or speculation and not based in reality, even if there are points sprinkled in that I agree with largely or in part. If a majority of right-wing influencers are literally and currently traitors, that is a serious accusation and requires serious proof. Let’s do something about it if you have evidence to support your assertions.
And social media companies are the ones promoting these influencers and their channels and putting people in bubbles with their algorithms. Not properly moderating comment sections is also a choice of social media companies. Advertisers also have no problem funding these right-wing influencers either.
Citizens are responsible for keeping their countries healthy, their media fair, and their governments and elected officials representing their interests.
This is all kinda my point
Saying I am propagandized with zero evidence or good faith argumentation does not prove your point - the ball is in your court to prove that I am propagandized.
Wherever there’s discussions happening online, Russia helps amplify divisive messages and the algorithms do the rest.
Social media is largely US-owned and controlled. The algorithms could literally not exist, instead there be chronological or random ordering of posts and comments + auditable, fair moderation. Forums had their issues, but they were more fair platforms for discourse. Voting systems could literally not count for anything significant and not weight posts and comments over others.
Social media of the type that you are mainly referring to (where discussions happen in earnest) are a niche. Russia is not largely pushing right-wing talking points and polarization in a general sense - advertisers, right-wing organizations, liberal organizations, and social media companies are. And it isn’t a secret or a conspiracy - social media companies create and control their platforms (including their algorithms) and partisan politics and media are constantly fanning the flame.
From Wikipedia on the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine:
The demise of this FCC rule has been cited as a contributing factor in the rising level of party polarization in the United States.[5][6]
Party or political polarization in the US is not primarily driven by Russia. It’s our system and we can take responsibility for it instead of blaming Russia for everything.
What are some major talking points that Russia seeded in their heads that persist to this day or overtly inspire some of the right-wing talking points we presently see? These people are pro-American in their minds - many likely believe they are more pro-American than anybody else.
You’ve fallen for propaganda that convinces you that there is an external enemy to worry about instead of actually looking at the situation critically. Right-wing organizations drive right-wing talking points.
They’ve sown distrust of traditional media and of democratic institutions
Pretty sure they did that to themselves. I didn’t need Russia feeding me propaganda to see through the bullshit, and many others reached that conclusion on their own. The Fairness Doctrine being repealed is one big reason why traditional media failed. Russia didn’t do that.
they’ve polarised discourse to that communities that mostly rubbed alongside one another reasonably well now are so idealogically opposed to each other that the middle ground has evaporated.
Right-wingers and liberals alike have polarized discourse. Leftists aren’t innocent either, especially MLs (many whom seem to be biased towards Russia), but there are plenty that I have interacted with that or witnessed that were exceedingly fair, empathetic, and human.
Liberals blame anybody to the left of them for not falling in line, constantly mock or berate them for demanding better, and do absolutely nothing to improve their preferred party or seriously advocate for improving the human condition in America. As for the right, we all know what they do.
middle ground has evaporated.
Politics and governance shouldn’t be a game of tug of war where the Republicans have a monster truck pulling their side and Democrats are pretending to hold the rope on their side.
How is Russia controlling their talking points now? I’m responding to the OP’s meme. Is everybody on the right threatened, blackmailed, or are otherwise under duress? We know they aren’t the most intelligent bunch, but they are being traitors for their own reasons - for the most part.
The major talking points mostly came from the aforementioned organizations and outlets even when some of these people were being paid.
If you look into it an amazing amount of them are further funded by Russia.
You seem to know more than me based on your response. You are claiming an amazing amount are funded by Russia, are there any decently recent sources which support your claim that you can direct me to? Do these people also take money from US-based right-wing organizations?
Yeah, let’s just ignore the right-wing think tanks, the majority of conservative/MAGA influencers who aren’t on Russia’s payroll, and right-wing “news” organizations. It’s totally just Russia and not right-wingers trying to destroy the country to grab all the power for themselves…
Doesn’t really make much sense for me to switch to a flip phone unless it was specifically built for privacy/security. SMS and regular voice calls are insecure, it likely could connect to fake cell towers uninhibited, it likely doesn’t have hardware switches to disconnect various features e.g. modem, microphone, or camera.
It’d probably be fucked up like how it was depicted in Star Trek.
but I refuse to abide this style of using investor money to operate at a loss for years while deceptively capturing the market before raising prices.
Indeed, no company should be praised or rewarded for emulating the moves that made companies like Walmart and Amazon big.
This capitalist hellscape would be slightly more tolerable if there was ample competition in every space. Companies need to be motivated to make their profit in ways that please the consumer, but also in ways that are increasingly more ethical.
But truly, as they say, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Modern slavery and third-world exploitation…even literal child slavery are rampant in our supply chains and offshore manufacturing.
Even Google indirectly uses child slavery. The court threw the case raised against them (and other giants) out last year because these companies simply purchase “unspecified amounts” of cobalt through “global supply chains” - never mind how it came to be on the global supply chain to begin with and how much obscene profit these companies make off these resources.
It is naive to trust any US-based service. The devil’s advocate in me just wanted to hear why you believe what you do, so thanks for that.
My angle was mostly to point out that Ladybird hasn’t done anything obviously morally bankrupt like the politicians you pointed out - the only detracting factors to me about the project are 1) that the nonprofit is based in the US 2) that it’s not written in Rust.
Of course, it’s worth being suspicious of a web browser of all things. I just see Cloudflare’s contribution in a neutral light given Cloudflare’s general strategy towards PR and the fact that the Ladybird browser is likely going to be a very niche product - and they aren’t even focusing on Windows support for the foreseeable future.
Do I trust Ladybird more than Mozilla? Yes - I do, but the bar is pretty low.